Eiríkr

II'd have to disagree with you there.

Ron Paul 2008 — Hope for America

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Dark SoliloQuy

wow.

well.....im def. not a libertarian, and i def. wouldnt want one in office as president of this country.

some of the libertarian ideal and goals i can agree with. like take for instance the sexuality and gender issues, i dont think there should be discrimination either or a "socially acceptable" standard.

i was reading the issue and solutions of immigration of the libertarians and quite frankly i couldnt think that they were more ignorant.

libertarians want to wipe out government taxes and welfare programs?! now granted there are many of ppl who take advantage and abuse these programs, but there are also many ppl who dont, and who honestly need these programs, and when i see those ppl i am happy that i pay taxes to help them.

another thing....what do you think pays for buildings...schools...roads....police...firefighte rs...ambulance, who builds hospitals......TAXES, thats what pays for it, wether u believe its a government conspiracy to keep your money or not, thats what pays for it. basically what the libertarians are saying is that they want to wipe all that out and leave it up to the ppl to decide what to do with their money....well im sorry but i dont have that much faith in ppl.

and drugs, they want to just not prohibit anything....have you ever seen anyone on crystal meth?? its sad, have you ever seen anyone on heroin? its depressing, so lets just make everything Legal and make more programs to better educate ppl about drugs, NO it doesnt work that way, ppl dont listen now what would change?

these are just my opinions, i think that some libertarians such as subnoize and hitzel, would actually be generous enough to "donate to charities" like the libertarians say, i think they are good ppl, but the fact of the matter is i dont think there are enough good ppl in this world to make the libertarians beliefs actually work.

i personally think that it would take hundreds upon hundreds of years to actually implement these ideas and goals, and i dont think it will ever happen.

idk, but by reading some of the site and some of these goals and beliefs and ideals...libertarianism puts a lot of power and faith in the people...but i just dont feel that way.

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Who Nose

Now whiile I don't really claim any party affiliation, I do feel that the libertarian party is most in line with my thinking. Heck, the only time I voted for the president, I voted for Harry Browne (libertarian). I feel I should clarify a few of Dark's points.

First off, unless I am mistaken, or they have changed their platform, they don't support the abolition of taxes, merely the abolition of the income tax. What is wrong with that? In my opinion, and theirs, it is unconstitutional and no different than paying tribute to a King which is what our founding fathers were trying to avoid. Sales tax would increase to compensate for the loss, I am sure, but I would have no problem with that.

Second, the drug issue. This issue is actually much bigger than drugs. It also includes things like prostitution, and seat-belt laws. If ever in your life you have the opportunity to take any political philosophy courses I would highly recommend it. It would make it much easier here if you already had, but I will do my best to convey the important material. Everyone knows we live in a democratic state, well at least in name, really more of a republic, but for the argument we will say democracy. Now there are further divisions which describe the "style" of democratic state we exist in. The two we are dealing with here are paternalism and liberalism. This is actually where the libertarian party gets its name. Now don't confuse the term liberalism with what the word liberal has come to mean. They are really quite different in meaning. Liberalism is an old concept and in general it means that people should be able to do whatever the heck they want to so long as it doesn't harm another. John Locke, whose philosophies were the very basis of our government, was a big figure in the liberalist movement. The founding fathers were mostly, not all, liberalists. This country and its constitution were based on the liberal ideal.

Now paternalism, on the other hand, basically says the government should be the one who says what John and Jane Consumer can or cannot do. Monarchism is the pinnacle of paternalism. This was what we were trying to escape from, however this is what we have built for ourselves.

So yes, the libertarian party supports the abolition of laws that are considered victimless. Or rather, where the only victim is you. No libertarian is going to say it is okay to smoke a big hit of crack and then drive down the street, but if you are at home by yourself, do whatever makes you happy.

I can't respond to the immigration point because I don't really recall exactly what their stance is. I imagine it is pretty open though, which I have no problem with. If it wasn't for immigration, none of us would be here.

Their ideas on the welfare state are interesting and are of a personal interest to me. I had to quit working for 2 years to care for a loved one and I have some personal experience with it. What can't be argued is that the welfare state continues to get bigger and bigger. Now is this the fault of the welfare system itself, or is this the inherent flaw of capitalism in which the majority of wealth is held by a few as a lower class continues to grow and middle class shrinks? Here is an interesting stat:

From 1990 to 2003:

• CEO pay rose 313%
• The S&P 500 rose 242%
• Corporate profits rose 128%
• Average worker pay rose 49%
• Inflation rose 41%

from FairEconomy.org - Ratio of CEO Pay to Average Worker Pay Reaches 301 in 2003

I don't really know where I stand on their ideas of welfare reform because I am not sold on the fact that the current (welfare) system is broken. I tend to think that it is our economic system that needs a little restructuring.

Just my 2 pennies.

hXc hiPPo

They want to wipe out federal taxes. Federal taxes is what takes most of our money. State taxes pay for education, infrastructure, and the jobs you mention. People do good on their own, as long as dumbasses aren't in charge.


People will use drugs regardless of if they're illegal or not. The point of making them legal is so peaceful people aren't filling up our prisons. Putting someone in prison for doing drugs is stupid. Although pushing drugs is considered illegal in Libertarian ideals.

It's not so much good people, as people with lots of money. America gives so much money to other countries. And our rich moguls give so much money, because they can. The average man can give the same percentage of his pay, but then it isn't that much. It depends on rich people.

Pessimism may be considered wise, but it's not right. There are good and bad people. People living without the government controlling their lives tend to be much happier as well.

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Dark SoliloQuy

thanks for clearing some of that up who nose.

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SheiK

I'm not going to dwell on issues at this time, considering I'm somewhat busy with personal things, but I have some time to post a bit on this.

I'd like to clarify something though, the quiz is not an entirely valid source for political alliance. It does not take in to account the issues of foreign policy and war besides the draft. Also, boasting the phrase "The World's Smallest" gives the quiz some invalidity, as it does not cover ENOUGH topics to make it accurate enough to determine one's political standing. Btw, I noticed that each of the questions had a "positive" phrasing to it, encouraging an agree response. (If you make all questions "agreed", you get a libertarian standing. Make all disagree, and you get statist. Statist is basically ideologies like fascism, communism, and populism. Do all maybes and you get a Centrist.)

Hah, I know this thread is not based solely on the quiz, but the fact that you used the quiz as a building block in your post makes it valid for argumental purposes.

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