P Pierce34

I think you are the only person on this forum who agrees with me, which is sad because if you go back and read the whole thread Example never made a valid point and pretty much all my points are valid.

Then he went crying to a moderator because he lost an arguement and he wanted the thread closed so people couldn't see it. Helljumper (who is clearly a H2 fan and knows what I'm talking about) was like I can't close it because Pierce didn't say anything bad.

Helljumper

Even if that is the case, if a thread is closed, it is still viewable. Just no more posts can be made.

BrassMonkey

I hate idiots who campare these 2 games. THEY ARE JUST GAMES PEOPLE, just games. Who cares what one person thinks is better. Make up your own damn mind on which you prefer.

gunsblayz

sucks that i'm late, but in response to most of the things that pierce said, and just things that i don't like about halo 2 in general heres my LONG ASS POST, keep i'm not horrible at halo 2, i'm decent, but i never use the BXB, BXR, newb combo, or sword so i could be alot better if i wanted to be, also i don't use the sniper swipe often at all except when no scoping, i rape at halo 1 and plan to do very good in pdz but only time will tell that

pdz > halo 2, pdz's headshots take more skill than halo 2s, if not then why do all the halo 2 players who play this game then complain about the aiming, you're the only person i've ever seen post saying that pdz's aiming is easier than halo 2s, cause it isnt, seeing as how you can't just run in a straight line cause people are on slopes with all the different ramps/stairs/hills so you have to aim up and down(does getting shot move your reticle? not sure haven't got to play enough thought it might though) but then if that was the case you could use your stupid argument that you used for halo 2's auto aim, well everyone can do it so that makes it fair, even though thats a stupid argument

if you wanna talk about aiming being harder consider this, in pdz 3 head shots and a body shot do more damage than 3 body shots and 1 head shot, in halo 2 shooting someone with a br its the exact opposite, 3 body shots and a headshot = death but 3 headshots and a body shot doesnt? that to you is a game that takes more skill in aiming? and for the last head shot you don't even have to hit the head you swipe past it and use sticky aim and big hit boxes, halo 2 if the center if your cursor is not someone but a part of the reticle is, half the time auto aim will kick in and make it hit, but its harder to aim in pdz where you actually have to aim the center for the person you're trying to hit?

halo 2 is not a revolutionary game at all, its online system is, but someone correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt the pdz system whats supposed to be used for like all xbox live games, i didn't think it was a pdz thing, its supposed to be microsofts TrueSkill system i thought? oh and bungie's system is a great concept but badly implemented, never had a problem with stand-byers in any other games i played online, know why? there was a party host who would just boot them, can't do that in bungie's oh so great matchmaking system, standy-bying is still easy to do, its just most people have mod kits now so they don't have to stand-by, add to that boosters, takes the whole point of having the matchmaking system set up cause you're usually not matched up with people of equal skill, modders of course, again all the other live games they just get booted, simple, de-levelers, again never had a problem in other games but with bungies great new system huge problem, why not simply add the vote to boot option they've had in games for ages now? this is something missing from many console games though, not just halo 2, though halo 2 made the feature a necessity

melees in halo 2 are bad, tons of times melees will hit but it won't do damage cause they put it into the game in a stupid fashion then theres the bxb, bxr, sword, and plasma pistol, none of those take skill, halo 2's multiplayer isn't fair or even at all, maps like relic, whoever gets 2 snipers wins everytime, nothing you can do from there, lockout 4 v 4 just results in camping the library, nothing you can really do against that, the way they did weapon spawns makes tons of maps campable and easily unbalanced

vehicles don't really take damage, if you think they really do go have someone get in a ghost and shoot the front of the ghost with a br, once you destroy the ghost come back and post, you'll never come back cause it won't happen, and no i don't count the need for speed style "cosemetic damage that really doesn't do anything" damage as actually taking damage, they got rid of the holes in the scorpion so you can snipe someone out of it, sniper bullets just bounce off the wraith, gauss warthog, huge reticle and its a 1 hit kill, vehicles are way overpowered, add to that if the person with the rockets gets in wrath you can now no longer rocket him cause they won't respawn cause someone has them

as someone said you can't get into an smg battle with someone without taking tons of damage, don't give me the oh shoot them in the head, doesn't make much of a difference, go have someone only shoot you in the body with one, even the legs, and you only shoot them in the head, you still take plenty of damage, and with the huge reticle in any real battle you're going to get hit in the head, pdz on the other hand i've out pistol'd people who have m60s

my little brother is 10 years old, can't play halo 2 for crap, hes played it probably 4 times hes horrible at the game, like i doubt he could be the first level on easy, he was playing my friend whos not quite pro level but very high up there, he placed top 4 at mlg atlanta's last chance qualifier and his teams advanced several rounds in mlg 4 v 4s(though he has 2 really bad people on his team so him and one other player carry their team) they were on lockout and he was just playing around, had like 15 kills in a row, i told my brother if he ever gets close just keep hitting the read button, they come around a corner, my friend brs him in the head, my brother hits b, my friend hits b, melee hits does no damage, my brother hits b, my friend hits b and actually connects for damage, my brother hits b again and gets a kill, again no skill needed, the melees lunge at the person for you even if you're not really facing them directly and then they're incredibly inconsistent, the fact that my little brother could get a kill against a very skilled halo 2 player adds to the argument that the skill factor is greatly reduced

you say pdz takes no skill cause all you have to do is leave the cursor at the level it starts at and shoot them in the head, so what do you have to say of halo 2s aiming where if you swipe past a head and shoot it still hits? theres tons of videos of shots being far off of someones heads and hittin, most memorable is probably the one in ivory tower in rippon's montage where he snipes someone from sniper spawn while they're on wood, and misses by a mile and gets the head shot

you say you don't see why people would bother cheating on pdz since ranks are easily visible, but then you question why they'd do that and say ranks should be more visible, why? so they can encourage people to cheat? i'm glad ranks aren't shown everywhere you go, less reasons for newbs to cheat

the matchmaking system doesn't work for the following reason, if i'm great at the game but i got it after other people, i'm going to of course be low level, so people aren't getting matched up with people close to their skill level, if i decide to play a gametype i haven't played i'm ranked 0(or 1 or something don't know or care) and then i play against newbs not people of my skill level, if i'm great at the game then i get modded and stand-by'd all the time and lose level, then i'm playing against players lower level than i rightfully should be, again not playing people my level, people can just de-level to play against easier people, and again people aren't playing against people of their level, the degree of the win isnt factored into how many points you get, so a person who should be level 20 wins a match by one, and a person who should be level 50 wins a match by 30 kills, they both get the same amount of points so as they're slowly moving up to their rightful levels they're stuck playing against newbs, if they factored how much the game was won by, that great player would advance much faster than they average player, and balance out the ranks 10 times faster, but no its not like that, oh and don't forget you can always remake a clan whenever you want to play minor/major clan matches with, me and my friends do it all the time actually, we'll get to like level 12 in minors, start to get modded, i'll come back the next day and they got tired of getting modded and remade the clan, we rape newbs, get up to lvl 10ish, get some competition, then get modded and it repeats, but this system is considered to be great by so many people?

P Pierce34

This is going to be a fun read. Maybe I will continue defending Halo 2.

l Example l

Wow Guns, thank you for pointing all that out. It is hard for other people to understand the problems with halo 2 without playing halo 1 for a good amount of time and becoming skilled at it, because by itself halo 2 is a awsome game but because it is the sequal to halo 1 and is thus compaired harshly to it, it becomes obvious all the problems with it.

P Pierce34

gunsblayz - sucks that i'm late, but in response to most of the things that pierce said, and just things that i don't like about halo 2 in general heres my LONG ASS POST, keep i'm not horrible at halo 2, i'm decent, but i never use the BXB, BXR, newb combo, or sword so i could be alot better if i wanted to be, also i don't use the sniper swipe often at all except when no scoping, i rape at halo 1 and plan to do very good in pdz but only time will tell that

P Pierce34 - Keep in mind I'm not horrible at PDZ, I'm decent, but I never use the secondary or tertiary functions or the viblade so I could be a lot better if I wanted to be. Also I don't use head shots often at all except when no scoping, I rape at PD1 and plan to do very good in Halo 3, but only time will tell that. Lol.

Oh where do I start? I really don't have the energy to reply to this, but I will try. I told myself I wouldn't get dragged back into this thread, but gunsblayz has left me no choice.

gunsblayz - pdz > halo 2, pdz's headshots take more skill than halo 2s, if not then why do all the halo 2 players who play this game then complain about the aiming, you're the only person i've ever seen post saying that pdz's aiming is easier than halo 2s, cause it isnt, seeing as how you can't just run in a straight line cause people are on slopes with all the different ramps/stairs/hills so you have to aim up and down(does getting shot move your reticle? not sure haven't got to play enough thought it might though) but then if that was the case you could use your stupid argument that you used for halo 2's auto aim, well everyone can do it so that makes it fair, even though thats a stupid argument

P Pierce34 - You can forget what I had said about getting head shots with the Falcon. I did use that method when I first started playing and it worked, because there were a ton of new players who had no idea what they were doing and they would just stand around on flat ground all the time zoomed in or something. Lately I haven't had any need for this strategy anyway because I've gotten better at headshots namely with the FAC-16. Headshots do feel a little random in PDZ, but if you zoom in with the FAC-16 and pound away at the head you will get one. Wether it is on your second shot or your 10th is up to the game.

gunsblayz - if you wanna talk about aiming being harder consider this, in pdz 3 head shots and a body shot do more damage than 3 body shots and 1 head shot, in halo 2 shooting someone with a br its the exact opposite, 3 body shots and a headshot = death but 3 headshots and a body shot doesnt? that to you is a game that takes more skill in aiming? and for the last head shot you don't even have to hit the head you swipe past it and use sticky aim and big hit boxes, halo 2 if the center if your cursor is not someone but a part of the reticle is, half the time auto aim will kick in and make it hit, but its harder to aim in pdz where you actually have to aim the center for the person you're trying to hit?

P Pierce34 - This paragraph is a bunch of gibberish and it is hard to understand your line of thought. In PDZ a headshot is a kill so what are you talking about? Once you knock a players helmet off with one bullet you can then get a headshot (a kill) with a second bullet. Of course most of the time you need to fire more than two shots at the head to kill because you won't hit the head with every bullet and PDZ headshots have a distictly random feel to them anyway. Often it looks like you hit a player in the head many times who is not wearing a helmet (armor has been shot off) and you do not get a head shot. While other times you spin around and fire one or two wild shots and get a headshot kill. Sweep aiming in H2 is a skill and does not work every time and if you are so mad about being killed by the "noob combo" and sword so much (getting back to your first paragraph) why don't you work on your skills and learn to avoid them. Make the player miss with plasma and he is helpless. Use a shotgun against the sword or just step to the left as he lunges or attack him with two or more players. Your problem is that you aren't determined or "skilled" enough to actually get good at H2 so you just complain about the weapons you get killed with the most. Talking about how aiming works in both games and then saying one game takes more skill than the other really is a stupid arguement anyway because all players in any game (PDZ and H2 included) have the exact same abilities and tools to kill other players. It is your own fault if you choose not to use certain weapons or combos because you are not good enough to defend against them and think no one should be able to use them. I have stated before that I enjoy the gameplay of both games yet I feel forced to point out a few PDZ gameplay weaknesses because you guys barrage me with false H2 gameplay weaknesses. The heart of my arguement here has always been multiplayer.

gunsblayz - halo 2 is not a revolutionary game at all, its online system is, but someone correct me if i'm wrong, but isnt the pdz system whats supposed to be used for like all xbox live games, i didn't think it was a pdz thing, its supposed to be microsofts TrueSkill system i thought? oh and bungie's system is a great concept but badly implemented, never had a problem with stand-byers in any other games i played online, know why? there was a party host who would just boot them, can't do that in bungie's oh so great matchmaking system, standy-bying is still easy to do, its just most people have mod kits now so they don't have to stand-by, add to that boosters, takes the whole point of having the matchmaking system set up cause you're usually not matched up with people of equal skill, modders of course, again all the other live games they just get booted, simple, de-levelers, again never had a problem in other games but with bungies great new system huge problem, why not simply add the vote to boot option they've had in games for ages now? this is something missing from many console games though, not just halo 2, though halo 2 made the feature a necessity

P Pierce34 - I guess we are on the same page when it comes to my main point throughout this entire arguement. It is not Halo 2's gameplay that is revolutionary, it is the online system of Halo 2 that is revolutionary. As for the PDZ system being the standard online system for all Xbox Live multiplayer games, that is false. Play Q4 and COD2. Quake 4 has a terrible Xbox Live setup but its different than PDZ and that's my point. I'm very glad the PDZ multiplayer system is not standard for the 360 because it is very unrevolutionary, yes I made up a word deal with it. I'm not sure if most people are just paranoid about cheaters or if they have a different version of Halo 2 than me, but if you run into cheaters every game then I don't know what to tell you because I don't. Aside from the cheaters there is no game with a ranking system as accurate as the one Bungie created. Sure there was a little more standbying than other games until they made it harder to do with an autoupdate. This is because the host is randomly picked behind the scenes and has no control over the match settings (which makes it fair). In return they have ranked playlists with premade fair gametypes that aren't made by the host of the game. You can look at a players rank in each playlist (provided they are not a cheater) and see what playlists they are best at and in turn what aspects of the game they are best at, and you know that they didn't just create every single ranked game they have ever played with their favorite map, weapons, time limit, etc (like in PDZ). How can you sit there and say that you are not usually matched up with players of equal skill in Halo 2? Go play some Halo 2 like thousands of other people are doing at this very moment. People continue to play Halo 2 in vast numbers more than a year after it's release for a reason. You 'usually' are matched up with players of equal skill and it is very fun. There is cheating, but it doesn't happen enough to deter the largest multiplayer community ever from playing this game constantly. About the booting thing. Do you think it is fair if a host boots the opposing team except for one player so his team will win? Because that is what happens when a host can boot people. In H2 a member of your own team can boot you if you betray them, that is the only time it is fair to boot someone. As far as I know you can't even boot players ever in PDZ so what is your point here?

gunsblayz - melees in halo 2 are bad, tons of times melees will hit but it won't do damage cause they put it into the game in a stupid fashion then theres the bxb, bxr, sword, and plasma pistol, none of those take skill, halo 2's multiplayer isn't fair or even at all, maps like relic, whoever gets 2 snipers wins everytime, nothing you can do from there, lockout 4 v 4 just results in camping the library, nothing you can really do against that, the way they did weapon spawns makes tons of maps campable and easily unbalanced

P Pierce34 - Let's see here... Your melee arguement doesn't make sense, beat downs happen all the time and are meant to be a last resort anyway...I already went over the fact that you need to work on your skill so you can defend against the power weapons and combos and use them yourself...don't let them get both snipers, if they do battle rifle them and work as a team to corner them and take them out or just use a vehicle...with every strategy there is another to fight against it just like in any other game...that paragraph was easy.

gunsblayz - vehicles don't really take damage, if you think they really do go have someone get in a ghost and shoot the front of the ghost with a br, once you destroy the ghost come back and post, you'll never come back cause it won't happen, and no i don't count the need for speed style "cosemetic damage that really doesn't do anything" damage as actually taking damage, they got rid of the holes in the scorpion so you can (P Pierce34 edit: I think you meant "can't" here) snipe someone out of it, sniper bullets just bounce off the wraith, gauss warthog, huge reticle and its a 1 hit kill, vehicles are way overpowered, add to that if the person with the rockets gets in wrath you can now no longer rocket him cause they won't respawn cause someone has them

P Pierce34 - VEHICLES DON'T REALLY TAKE DAMAGE!? This one makes me question wether or not you have played the game at all. Either that or your team slayer rank is lower than 5. This statement shows that you have a basic lack of understanding of the game. Of course you can't shoot a ghost from the front and expect to kill it, silly. The front is where the hood is that you splatter people with. Shoot it from the sides and the back or better yet shoot the player driving it. Cosmetic damage? I cannot believe that you have never seen a ghost destroyed! That baffles me. I can usually get about 3 or 4 splatters before the other team really starts battle rifling me and my ghost takes too much damage and explodes. You proceed to list that you can't snipe someone out of the tanks, the gauss warthog can get one hit kills, and that it is advantageous to get rockets before you get into a vehicle. Yes these statements are correct. Do you have a point?

gunsblayz - as someone said you can't get into an smg battle with someone without taking tons of damage, don't give me the oh shoot them in the head, doesn't make much of a difference, go have someone only shoot you in the body with one, even the legs, and you only shoot them in the head, you still take plenty of damage, and with the huge reticle in any real battle you're going to get hit in the head, pdz on the other hand i've out pistol'd people who have m60s

P Pierce34 - Another confusing paragraph here. You are upset that if you have an smg battle you both will take a lot of damage before one of you dies, and you agree that the one who aims at the head will kill the other player first. OK. Then you say that you can kill just as easily with any weapon in PDZ. Isn't that a flaw? Then why not just have one pistol in the game and take out all the other weapons?

gunsblayz - my little brother is 10 years old, can't play halo 2 for crap, hes played it probably 4 times hes horrible at the game, like i doubt he could be the first level on easy, he was playing my friend whos not quite pro level but very high up there, he placed top 4 at mlg atlanta's last chance qualifier and his teams advanced several rounds in mlg 4 v 4s(though he has 2 really bad people on his team so him and one other player carry their team) they were on lockout and he was just playing around, had like 15 kills in a row, i told my brother if he ever gets close just keep hitting the read button, they come around a corner, my friend brs him in the head, my brother hits b, my friend hits b, melee hits does no damage, my brother hits b, my friend hits b and actually connects for damage, my brother hits b again and gets a kill, again no skill needed, the melees lunge at the person for you even if you're not really facing them directly and then they're incredibly inconsistent, the fact that my little brother could get a kill against a very skilled halo 2 player adds to the argument that the skill factor is greatly reduced

P Pierce34 - I'll ignore this next paragraph about your little brother because it sounds like you made it up. I'll just say this, why aren't all players ranked 50 in all playlists???

gunsblayz - you say pdz takes no skill cause all you have to do is leave the cursor at the level it starts at and shoot them in the head, so what do you have to say of halo 2s aiming where if you swipe past a head and shoot it still hits? theres tons of videos of shots being far off of someones heads and hittin, most memorable is probably the one in ivory tower in rippon's montage where he snipes someone from sniper spawn while they're on wood, and misses by a mile and gets the head shot

P Pierce34 - I've already covered the PDZ headshot and H2 sweep sniping.

gunsblayz - you say you don't see why people would bother cheating on pdz since ranks are easily visible, but then you question why they'd do that and say ranks should be more visible, why? so they can encourage people to cheat? i'm glad ranks aren't shown everywhere you go, less reasons for newbs to cheat

P Pierce34 - You must have misread what I typed because I sarcasticly asked why you would cheat because you have to go digging through menus to see what you are ranked in each gametype anyway. As far as I know you can only check your own or anyone elses ranks in the pregame lobby. Unlike Halo 2 where you can check a player's rank in the friends list, clan list, players list, pregame lobby, or the website.

gunsblayz - the matchmaking system doesn't work for the following reason, if i'm great at the game but i got it after other people, i'm going to of course be low level, so people aren't getting matched up with people close to their skill level, if i decide to play a gametype i haven't played i'm ranked 0(or 1 or something don't know or care) and then i play against newbs not people of my skill level, if i'm great at the game then i get modded and stand-by'd all the time and lose level, then i'm playing against players lower level than i rightfully should be, again not playing people my level, people can just de-level to play against easier people, and again people aren't playing against people of their level, the degree of the win isnt factored into how many points you get, so a person who should be level 20 wins a match by one, and a person who should be level 50 wins a match by 30 kills, they both get the same amount of points so as they're slowly moving up to their rightful levels they're stuck playing against newbs, if they factored how much the game was won by, that great player would advance much faster than they average player, and balance out the ranks 10 times faster, but no its not like that, oh and don't forget you can always remake a clan whenever you want to play minor/major clan matches with, me and my friends do it all the time actually, we'll get to like level 12 in minors, start to get modded, i'll come back the next day and they got tired of getting modded and remade the clan, we rape newbs, get up to lvl 10ish, get some competition, then get modded and it repeats, but this system is considered to be great by so many people?


P Pierce34 - That is one heck of a jumbled chaotic run on sentence. You know it's a lot of work sometimes to sift through what you typed and figure out what you mean. If you respond to this post please use periods. Back to the subject, you can't be great at the game if you haven't played before, and if you magically are then you will quickly rise to whatever rank you should be. According to you though, the game is so easy everyone is a 50 and everyone's little brother can beat pros. Oh you can't de-level in PDZ? Or have you changed your arguement from "H2 vs PDZ" to "H2 vs some magical imaginary perfect game that doesn't exist"? The player who won by 30 kills will win more games and will rise higher in rank. The player who won by 1 kill will lose more games than the previously mentioned skilled player and will not rise as high in rank. If you delete and remake your clan all the time it sounds like you are having fun so keep it up. Once again you take a shot at Halo 2 for something that it does better than PDZ. PDZ has no clan support. It sounds like you should start a company and develop this wonderful perfect game that you have been talking about where everything is better than Halo 2. Stop complaining and go make this game because it sure isn't PDZ. PDZ is fun, but its multiplayer takes a few steps back from Halo 2. You guys won't even be playing PDZ in more than a year from now, we'll all be happily playing Halo 3 and will have nothing to argue about.

BrassMonkey

Why the hell are you people still arguing? This is sad really. Guess what? I own both games and love them both to death. I don't sit down and compare them to see which is better, I sit down and PLAY them, which is what they were meant for. But appearently some people just have to sh*t all over one game just to seem loyal to another certain game. When you who are whining about which is better finally mature enough to realize that they are just games that are only meant to be enjoyed, not pitted against one another, then maybe you will be worthy enough to even play them in the first place. It's people like you who are ruining games, not helping them. Who cares which game is better. Do you know what an opinion is? I have one friend who is a Halo elitist, and one who is a PD elitist. All they do is bicker about which game is better. Do you know what I do? I tell them to shut up, then I go and ENJOY the game(s) like they were MEANT FOR. I hope some of you can grow up enough to realize this so you can rejoin reality, shut up, and play the damn game.


...That's the end of my f*cking rant.

GoatLove 3000

I agree.

People have opinions. This is like saying "Who is cooler, Tony the Tiger or or the trix bunny"(poor bunny). How many times do people have to say that the two games are completely DIFFERENT! I didnt like PDZ for the first hour i played it because i was so used to playing halo. But now i like its multiplayer more than halo but that is my opinion. I like both games but i dont have to go around bashing the other game just because halo/pdz is my lover(i wish).

BrassMonkey

^Glad to see some sense of intelligence around here