Support Abortion? - Page 9

Celtic Hammer · 06-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitzel

An embryo is a cluster of cells. It can't think or feel emotion. It's not alive. Out of all the abortion arguments I've heard, no one has ever tried to say that embryos have comprehensive thoughts. Destroying one prevents a life, it doesn't kill a life.

Deciding weather or not it's best to prevent a life before it happens is what pro-choice means.

Anyone who is mature on the subject can easily come up with reasons why having a baby should be avoided. Rape, youth, and lack of resources to support a child are also reasons not to have a baby. And guess what, using protection doesn't always work. Read my earlier post. A girl should not be forced to ruin her own life and her child's life because a condom broke when she was 16 years old, without a way to support herself or her child.

And for those of you who would still go on with the pregnancy, remember, pro-choice. No one's forcing you to not have a baby.

And Celtic Hammer: With the laws we have now, you cannot abort a developed baby. The law is fine the way it is now, and the price of abortion moderates it's frequency. There is no one pushing for the law to allow us to kill babies, only people pushing to ban the procedures we allow now.

The laws we have now are both moralistic and reasonable. There's no need to change them in any way.

A cluster of cells without emotion is your definition of human versus non-human. Wow- Im sure glad my dad didnt share your same phylosophy or my grandmother (his mother) would have been offed 5 years before she died. You see, she was a cluster of cells lying in a hospital bed with advanced Alzhiemers for the last 5 years of her life, unresponsive and without emotion. How can you begin to say a cluster of cells cannot be human. And with the laws we have now, youre not supposed to drive faster than the speed limit either but most of us do. Abortions happen everyday, most of them are illegal. Its not the laws but the ethics and morals of our society. Rape is cause for abortion but not youth nor lack of resources. If you are too young or if you lack the resources to raise the child there are hundreds of infertile couples that would be grateful to raise that child as their own. I have an aquaintance at work who has been paralyzed since he was 17 years old, he is now 35. He and his wife had tried every medical way possible to concieve their own child and have now decided to adopt. Only one problem, their are very few newborn american babies available and they do not prefer to go to europe or asia to find a child. Sure, this is only one isolated example but it is the same all over the country. If you dont want to raise the child, dont kill it - share it with someone who is responsible and has the resources to provide for it. Think about it. One of the thousands of babies that have been aborted could very well have turned out to be the person to find a cure for cancer or AIDS. It could have been an individual that could have made a significant impact on the world - another Einstein, Edison, or Newton. I guess we'll never know. Had Louis PAsteurs mother or Jonas Salk's mother had opted to have them aborted we would all be in a world of shit. If any of our great scientists and doctors had been thrown away because they are a cluster of non-emotional cells, we would be living in the dark ages still. Children are our most valuable resource. If this doesnt make sense to you then I suggest you rethink your priorities and values.

SubNoiZe · 06-06-2007

its good to see people actually having great debates in this forum now instead of the usual flames.

/end offtopic post.

(**hopes he didnt post this prematurely**)

GoatLove · 06-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ng31

Well maybe if we didn't revive year old threads, we wouldn't have to stress our points again...it's kind of annoying to argue something you've already done once, with the same stance, against the same stance...

I didnt name names. There are people on both sides that dont have to flame. I just get sick of people flaming each other. This forum used to be better....now it just feels like a high school reality tv show.

SubNoiZe · 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ng31

Yes, please don't take anything I say as a personal insult, as this is a debate, and I do respect others opinions, as long as they are well thought-out and intelligent.

I enjoy a good one, so again, don't take anything to a personal level...of course unless you're a dumb ass...then you deserve it.

i enjoy a great debate as well, but most of the time they erupt into flame threads.

Dark SoliloQuy · 06-06-2007

fuck flaming...

back on topic.

well hitzel had some very good points...as did angel....as did hammer....

im kind of stuck in between, yes the initial cluster of cells cant think or feel...but because its just that (a cluster of cells in a womb) most odnt think of it as "alive" as opposed to the elderly woman alzheimers.

its such a fine line.

i def. think rape is means for an abortion....but come on...u have woman who get pregnant and get abortion after abortion, GET UR TUBES TIED...

if you are old enough to make the decision to have sex without a condom, then you have to step up and accept the responsibilities of the unwanted/unexpected pregnancy, an abortion is just a cop out imo.

if you are old enough to make the decision to have safe sex...you have to understand that the only safe way to not get pregnant is to NOT HAVE SEX. so again, you have to own up

i understand that many young kids dont have the recourses to take care of these babies, but like hammer said, im positive there are many couples...decent providing, loving, couples, who would love to adopt, instead of dumping the child in an orphanage, why not find agencies to help find the couples that so deeply would like to adopt a healthy child.

just cuz you get pregnant at 16 and u think its gonna ruin ur life, isnt an excuse to get an abortion

like hammer said...what if that baby could have dont great things, the next president...like angel said what if it doesnt..what if it becomes the next charles manson....but again...what if it doesnt...its all big what ifs.

Celtic Hammer · 06-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ng31

Actually, the definition of "being alive"/"living" is defined as being able to provide for ones self and support ones self on their own (in a very un-technical way, as I don't feel like grabbing the dictionary right now, but I think you understand what I mean).

Or, they could turn out to be another Charles Manson or John Wayne Gacy...that argument kinda fails if you think of it that way doesn't it...

Euthanasia also happens every day too...most of them are illegal as well...do we still make the same debates about it? What's the difference between assisted suicide, or better described as mercy killing, and taking the "life" of something that isn't "alive"? Priorities? Values?

You and I will definitely have to agree to disagree on this subject but you are not going to quote biokogical scripture in the form of your feable definitions to me - a 23 year veteran of the biological sciences classroom. Biology and the study there of has been a daily part of my life for almost 30 years. What are your credentials? I have been in this world for 45 years and a few months now, I think I have had ample life experiences and have dealt with the topic of life from every angle possible for the majority of that time. You can disagree with me if you want too, that is your right. And sure, many of those aborted fetuses could have been mass murderers or terrorist, but there have been more good people born into this world than bad. It is very unfortunate that some one as young and inexperienced as you can be so synical regarding life itself. Life has a way of changing peoples minds for the good or for the bad. When you beome a responsible adult and you have children of your own, you perspective will change, I assure you. And as to euthanasia, its wrong as well. From all of the posts in this thread that I have read, and I have made a point to read each and every one of them , I am deeply saddened by the mentality of many who have posted here. I know this is hot topic and can lead to heated debate but I can do what alot of you cant and that is look back and see just how much the moral values of our country and the world as a whole have degraded. Saying that an embryo or fetus is not alive, that it is a cluster of cells unable to provide for itself and therefore cannot be considered human. If we assume your definition of alive, being able to support ones self and care for ones self, then I guess we were all dead until we could feed ourselves and clothe ourselves and so on,,,,,Im thinking that some of you are still not living (according to your definition) since you are still depending on your parents income and resources and are not actually providing for yourselves even now.

Dark SoliloQuy · 06-06-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celtic Hammer

You and I will definitely have to agree to disagree on this subject but you are not going to quote biokogical scripture in the form of your feable definitions to me - a 23 year veteran of the biological sciences classroom. Biology and the study there of has been a daily part of my life for almost 30 years. What are your credentials? I have been in this world for 45 years and a few months now, I think I have had ample life experiences and have dealt with the topic of life from every angle possible for the majority of that time. You can disagree with me if you want too, that is your right. And sure, many of those aborted fetuses could have been mass murderers or terrorist, but there have been more good people born into this world than bad. It is very unfortunate that some one as young and inexperienced as you can be so synical regarding life itself. Life has a way of changing peoples minds for the good or for the bad. When you beome a responsible adult and you have children of your own, you perspective will change, I assure you. And as to euthanasia, its wrong as well. From all of the posts in this thread that I have read, and I have made a point to read each and every one of them , I am deeply saddened by the mentality of many who have posted here. I know this is hot topic and can lead to heated debate but I can do what alot of you cant and that is look back and see just how much the moral values of our country and the world as a whole have degraded. Saying that an embryo or fetus is not alive, that it is a cluster of cells unable to provide for itself and therefore cannot be considered human. If we assume your definition of alive, being able to support ones self and care for ones self, then I guess we were all dead until we could feed ourselves and clothe ourselves and so on,,,,,Im thinking that some of you are still not living (according to your definition) since you are still depending on your parents income and resources and are not actually providing for yourselves even now.

very true...i do have to say...angel ur definition of "alive' is def. flawed imo.

this is from my good friend webster

Main Entry:alive

Pronunciation: \ə-ˈlīv\ Function:adjective Etymology:Middle English, from Old English on life, from on + līf lifeDate:before 12th century 1: having life : not dead or inanimate2 a: still in existence, force, or operation : active <kept hope alive> b: still active in competition with a chance of victory <must win to stay alive in the playoffs>3: knowing or realizing the existence of : sensitive <alive to the danger>4: marked by alertness, energy, or briskness <his face came alive at the mention of food>5: marked by much life, animation, or activity : swarming <streets alive with traffic>6— used as an intensive following the noun <the proudest boy alive>synonyms see aware

so baiscally ur definition is false. no offense or anything, but i totall agree with hammer in his above post.

i've been in the situation where i've had a few pregnancy scares....my ex-girflriend wanted the abortion, i didnt....thank god she wasnt pregnant, because i cant imagine what would have happened....just knowing that i had made life...for it to only be taken away before it even had a chance to make a difference in its own life or someone else's life was just killing me. my cousin however, wanted his girlfriend to have an abortion, it basically just comes down to how you were brought up, what are your values and your views.

Celtic Hammer · 06-07-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ng31

My preference in life is to not have children. At this point of my life, I am comfortably fine with never having children.

But may I ask, are you a practicing catholic, more specifically, of the roman catholic right?

This will be my last post regarding this topic as I have now realized that there is nothing that I can post nor anyone else in reference to this topic that you dont seem to think you know more about. I think your true motivation related to this subject is quite apparent in your statment above regarding your preference towards children. It is obvious with that mind set, that you do not value children as a meaningful part of life and therefore they (in whatever stage of their development) mean nothing more to you than an article of clothing, something to be discarded for whatever trivial reason if it doesnt particularly suit you. So it's probably a good thing for you not to bring a child into this world. As to my religious affiliation, you were way off the mark on that one. I am not, nor have I ever been a catholic. I was raise Baptist but do not distinguish myself as anything more than a christian. So with these last few comments I will simply agree to disagree with you and hope that you have not taken anything too personally as my philosophy towards opinions is this:

"Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, and everbody thinks that everyone elses' stinks"

P1MP · 06-07-2007

Something that i think everyone overlooks is of what it is GOING to be. See a random bundle of cells may not be considered a "life" but a random bundle of cell that will turn into a life is. Someone earlier said how foster homes treet kids and how they would have a bad life, but just because your childhood sucks doesnt meen you cant make anything of yourself. If you took everybody in america that had terrible childhoods and stoped there life so they wouldnt, there would be almost nobody in america. Also look at the alternative to a bad childhood, none at all.

ATwiztedPimp · 06-07-2007

it doesnt matter if u want a child its up 2 the "mom" speaking from sum1 that has a lil cuz who is 6 whose mom is a fucking whore that drinks and does drugs and cant provide for him at all but is lucky 2 have granparents who care for him. I mean my lil cuz broke his arm and it was broke for a week be4 the mom even noticed it. i love him and im glade hes here but its parents like dat that shouldnt have kids. she has 4 and doesnt talk 2 any of their fathers and they r all from different men. so i think if the mother isnt fit 2 have a kid such as a steady job or a house in a good environment then they should be aloud 2 have that kid